The weather outside is frightful, and so is the behavior of police departments around the country! In a special holiday-themed livestream, Police Accountability Report looks at a series of police abuse incidents around the country. From a Washington state trooper’s car crash to a botched raid in Kentucky, Stephen and Taya report live on the latest incidents of cops behaving badly and what it tells us about policing in the US today.

Production: Stephen Janis, Taya Graham
Studio Production: David Hebden, Cameron Granadino

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Transcript

The following is a rushed transcript and may contain errors. A proofread version will be made available as soon as possible.

Taya Graham:

Hello, my name is Taya Graham, and welcome to the PAR, Police Accountability Report, end-of-the-year accountability livestream. What’s an accountability livestream? Well, it’s one of our shows where we hold police accountable, but in this case, we do so completely live. And that is we highlight cops who are abusing people’s rights in real time and let you, our viewers, weigh in. And that’s why today we will be reporting on several stories of cops who have used the powers of policing to engage in questionable behavior. And as we do, we will unpack some of the broader issues that, as we always say, makes bad policing possible.

And in the process, of course, we want to engage with you, our viewers. I mean, the whole point of producing this show week after week is for you, the people who watch us. We value what you say and think, and we want to understand your perspective on all these questions. So to get started, we have posted a poll in our community tab, and we’ll share a link in the livestream chat for you to weigh in. It’s a very important question about the efforts to reform police that we will be discussing at the end of the show when we will show you the results and, of course, share some of your comments. But first, just a preview of what we will be reporting on today.

So this is a video of an accident caused by a Washington state trooper. But despite the evidence of what you are seeing on the screen, police tried to frame an innocent truck driver and blame him for the collision. It’s a perfect example of how the cover-up is often worse than the crime. Then we will be talking to Chris Reiter, the copwatcher, otherwise known as For Public Safety, who has been documenting and investigating the misconduct of an Indiana sheriff who raided their home but is now facing serious charges himself. And finally, we will close out the show with one of our favorite guests, Otto the Watchdog. And he will be giving us an update on his fight for justice with Royse City Texas law enforcement. And he will share what his years-long ordeal fighting the law enforcement establishment there has taught him about the challenges of holding police accountable, and he might have some good news as well.

But first, as usual, even though we’ve been planning the show for weeks, I have to find Stephen. I mean, he knows he’s supposed to be here, but right now, he’s simply MIA. Fortunately, our excellent show director David Hebden has been looking for him too. Dave, do you have any updates? Oh, you found him? Thanks, Dave.

Stephen Janis:

[inaudible 00:02:32] so good. I’m going to have such a great Stephen outdoor-

Taya Graham:

Stephen. Stephen.

Stephen Janis:

… one over here. One over here-

Taya Graham:

Stephen.

Stephen Janis:

… one over here… Oh.

Taya Graham:

I cannot believe this.

Stephen Janis:

Oh, hey, Taya, what’s going on? How you doing? Do you like what I’m doing with the Christmas tree-

Taya Graham:

Stephen, what are you doing with the corn nuts? What are you doing?

Stephen Janis:

Well, I’m putting them up on the Christmas tree. Max gave them to me as a Christmas bonus and I thought it looked good to have a little Christmas thing for myself outside, as you know, it gets-

Taya Graham:

Stephen, we have a live stream tonight.

Stephen Janis:

Oh, we have a live stream tonight?

Taya Graham:

Yes, we do.

Stephen Janis:

Wow, I didn’t know that. So should I come inside?

Taya Graham:

Absolutely. Get in here right now.

Stephen Janis:

I’m coming, I’m coming, but I want to just finish with the corn thing and-

Taya Graham:

Yeah. No. No. Get in here.

Stephen Janis:

I want to finish my corn nuts-

Taya Graham:

No. And Max wants the corn nuts back. Get back in here. Seriously.

Stephen Janis:

He wants them back?

Taya Graham:

Yes, he does.

Stephen Janis:

All right, I guess I have to come inside then. All right.

Taya Graham:

Please, just come inside.

Stephen Janis:

Fine. Fine. Fine. Fine.

Taya Graham:

Thank you.

Stephen Janis:

I’m coming in.

Taya Graham:

Thank you, Stephen.

Stephen Janis:

I’m coming in. I’ll be inside.

Taya Graham:

Oh, my gosh. I can’t even believe this. He’s a hard-nosed investigative journalist and he’s just used to being in the outdoors and beating the pavement for stories. It’s hard to get him back into the studio. Dave, thank you for locating him. As we wait, and this is live, you just have technical difficulties like this sometime. So as we wait for him to make his way into the studio, I think we probably just need to keep rolling.

So as I said before, we posted a new poll on our community tab, which we would love for you to respond to. It asks a question that is related to our last poll, but with a twist. Remember last week we asked you if you thought body-worn cameras had changed police behavior. Interestingly, more than half of you thought they did. But tonight, we have a slight iteration on that question that is related to the guests we will be speaking to later. And the question is, do you think copwatchers have had an impact on how police behave? That is, have copwatchers made police think twice before abusing their power? Have they made things better or worse? And obviously, we have done extensive reporting on copwatchers, but the controversy and, of course, their struggle to film police, and in doing so, hold police accountable. But we wanted to know what you think… Wait. Oh, thank you for gracing us with your presence.

Stephen Janis:

Yeah, I brought some corn nuts with me, so we can-

Taya Graham:

Thank you.

Stephen Janis:

Yeah. Are you okay?

Taya Graham:

Yeah. Stephen, I think you have the wrong mic in your hand.

Stephen Janis:

I don’t want to use this one. I can’t use my outdoor mic?

Taya Graham:

No.

Stephen Janis:

I’m pretty tapped.

Taya Graham:

You’re indoor now.

Stephen Janis:

Okay. All right.

Taya Graham:

Yeah. Thanks.

Stephen Janis:

You sure? Okay.

Taya Graham:

Yeah, it’s cool. It’s cool. Since you finally decide to grace us with your presence, I’m going to ask you the question-

Stephen Janis:

Me?

Taya Graham:

Yes. That we had in our poll. I know you’ve covered this topic before, but what are your thoughts?

Stephen Janis:

Well, I’ve done a lot of thinking about copwatching. And to be honest with you, it’s a bit of an obsession with me because we’ve covered so much of it. And it’s, as we’ve talked about before, watching a movement unfold. But I was thinking about it in a very different light this morning when I was contemplating some of our guests and what they’ve been up to. And I was thinking about a concept that was known as gonzo journalism, right? Back in the ’60s, the ’70s, Hunter S. Thompson, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, where the idea was a reporter puts himself in the story and says, “I’m not objective. I’m experiencing this firsthand.” And why I think that’s relevant to copwatchers is because if you look at the period where it evolved and where gonzo journalism became a big thing and a dominant cultural theme, it was a time when people didn’t trust government very much, where there was a lot of mistrust of the establishment, so to speak.

So I think in a way, copwatchers are very much a gonzo journalism. The other thing they do that I think is quite interesting and very important is that they turn the panopticon around on the establishment. In other words, the power, the establishment, the police that are used to observing us and watching us suddenly had that reverse. A reverse in balance of power where they’re being watched, but they’re being watched by people who aren’t part of the establishment, right? I mean, let’s be honest, mainstream media sometimes works with police in ways that I think is deleterious to the process of journalism. But a copwatcher doesn’t really belong to an institution. And a copwatcher is a wild card. And I think that’s really important to remember that that’s what’s cool about it. It’s a wild card where you have people like Otto who we’ll be talking to, who’s very creative, or Chris Reiter, who is also very creative about the way… They’re approaching this with their own, as you will say later, inimitable style, their own way and context of doing it. They’re reinventing their own form of gonzo journalism at this point.

And so I think it’s very important to the whole… As we see journalism in this crisis, we see newspapers closing, we see this tremendous crisis of journalism, now we’ve got these guys and women who are stepping up and filling the void, in a way, I think that responds to what’s actually going on. You can’t always cover these extreme abuses of power with just neutral journalism. And they’re saying neutral journalism doesn’t apply. So I know we both watched the movie Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas with Johnny Depp. And I’m not saying they’re that extreme, but there is a sense that something else is needed to fight the establishment narrative that ignores people’s true problems. And policing, of course, is a great lens through which to see that, but I think copwatchers fill a void, so to speak, from that perspective.

Taya Graham:

You have some support out here. Snark and Sass said, “He’s adorable.” I’ve never heard Stephen called adorable before, but I’m sure he appreciates it.

Stephen Janis:

Yeah.

Taya Graham:

So if you don’t know, I’m trying to put your comments on the screen while I’m running the stream. And I wanted to say to Linda… Let me make sure she’s up there. Linda, I got your contribution. That was awesome and thank you so much. Your card absolutely made my day.

Stephen Janis:

Oh, that was her card?

Taya Graham:

Yeah, I think it was her card.

Stephen Janis:

Oh, wow.

Taya Graham:

And I think I took her card and made a community post with it. It was a card that said thanks on it. So I just want you to know that if you send me mail or a donation, that I really appreciate it. We appreciate it a great deal.

Stephen Janis:

And we should point out right now that we’re in our fundraiser and that anything you donate to The Real News right now, which I was going to say… Is it okay if I ask for something for the tree? Because as you can see, my tree has got a bunch of corn nuts, but there are no lights. And so if people want to donate, I’m not saying I’m actually probably wouldn’t be approved to spend them on the lights, but nevertheless, if you donate now, your donation is matched by very generous donor. So if you donate $50, it’ll be $100 for us, and it’s really important… As we’re talking about journalism, journalism is in a really difficult place and it’s wonderful to have something independent like The Real News and have independent journalists who are not tied to any institutions really going out there and telling people’s stories. So if you can donate, we would really appreciate it. And I think it would be good for everyone to contribute to journalism.

Taya Graham:

You know what? I think I’m seeing some amazing people in our live chat right now. I think James Freeman, the James Freeman-

Stephen Janis:

The James Freeman?

Taya Graham:

The James Freeman-

Stephen Janis:

Oh, my God.

Taya Graham:

… also known as the GOAT, is in the live chat. I think we’ve got HBO Matt, Texas copwatcher there too. And I think I see [inaudible 00:09:40] from out in Colorado.

Stephen Janis:

So this is an impromptu copwatcher summit.

Taya Graham:

This might be a copwatcher convention.

Stephen Janis:

Yeah, we need to change the title.

Taya Graham:

And you know what? I think I saw Mrs. Justice too. Blind Justice has a YouTube channel. He’s a First Amendment activist, and a well-known copwatcher and disability activist. And also, Mrs. Justice has joined him on his First Amendment activities and adventures. So hello to you, Mrs. Justice. And hello, [inaudible 00:10:04]. So one thing, Stephen brought up the donations, and I just want to say, I just have to reiterate, what’s actually amazing right now is that if you donate a dollar, any dollar you will donate will actually be matched, and so we’re very fortunate right now. So if you’ve ever felt inspired to donate, now is a terrific time. So I think the donate button is here directly underneath the live chat.

But I want you to know that if funds are tight for you and even a $2 donation is just too much right now, it’s okay. I understand how that can be. You can also help us by just taking the time to leave a comment, giving us a thumbs up, subscribing to the channel, and making sure to share this with your friends. Invite your friends to our live chat so they can be part of the conversation and hopefully eventually they’ll want to be part of the PAR family as well.

Stephen Janis:

Yeah. And if you want a voice of the people, so to speak, a journalism organization that responds to people, that’s what we do with The Real News. We are not the voice of power. We are not the voice of the elites or the establishment. We literally go and talk to people and flip the script, really. Sometimes we describe the police accountability as cops, the show, in reverse, where cops that show the reality show that it’s always shot from the perspective of cops, tells a cop narrative, but doesn’t tell the narrative of the people who are experiencing what it’s like to be under the oppressive thumb of policing. So if you support us, there’s an independent voice out there for you, and that’s why we’re here. So-

Taya Graham:

Oh, my gosh. Joe Cool.

Stephen Janis:

Joe Cool.

Taya Graham:

Joe Cool’s in there.

Stephen Janis:

Oh, my God. We have-

Taya Graham:

Oh, my gosh. Okay, that’s so cool.

Stephen Janis:

The Luminaries.

Taya Graham:

Hey, Joe Cool. And I also just want to say hi to Julia Clark. I know that fight to get body camera is something else, so we’re still there with you. And we’re wishing you the best in getting that body camera.

Stephen Janis:

We care.

Taya Graham:

We do. And I also want to thank our mods, Lacey R. and… Hi, Noli D. in the chat, make sure to show our mods some love.

Stephen Janis:

I also hope Michael Willis is in the chat. He better be in there.

Taya Graham:

He might be in there. Oh, Oklahoma Outlaw Audits? Oh, my gosh. It is just happening in the chat right now. This is awesome. Hi, Oregon Rogue.

Stephen Janis:

We’re going to officially declare this a copwatcher summit at this point. I think we need to change the title of the show. I like the livestream accountability holiday special, but we’re going to declare this de facto-

Taya Graham:

I think we’re going to have to.

Stephen Janis:

We should check with Maximillian. Max, is it okay if we change the title to Copwatcher Summit?

Taya Graham:

Look, there’s Official MissConduct.

Stephen Janis:

Whoa.

Taya Graham:

Look at that. I’m pointing at the-

Stephen Janis:

Right. Don’t point. You’re going to confuse me. I’m trying to look at you.

Taya Graham:

Okay. I’m sorry. But just so you know, all these great copwatchers are in the chat, so you might want to just go and check out their channels later. But let’s get back to our first story of the PAR accountability livestream. Okay. So it’s a cautionary tale about what happens when law enforcement investigates itself. It’s a story that reveals that when it comes to deciding their own guilt, police have very little incentive and very few checks that force them to be truthful. So this story starts with a video. It depicts an accident involving a Washington state trooper who made an illegal turn and crashed into an oncoming vehicle. Just watch.

So even though the evidence was clear that the state trooper, and might I add, a rookie state trooper, had turned into the oncoming truck while attempting to perform a technique known as a rolling stop. Despite this, the state police hatched a plan. They decided to pin the blame for the accident on an innocent truck driver named Shawn Foutch. He’s a man who worked tirelessly as a commercial truck driver, crisscrossing the state to earn a living for his family. And as you may have guessed, the traffic violations would have a serious impact on his ability to earn a living. In fact, negligent driving, which is what he was initially charged with, could have cost him his CDL, his license, and that’s why he chose to fight back. And his lawyer found that the Washington state troopers had ignored evidence, tried to cover up the facts, and used their power to pin the blame on an innocent man.

And there was a collision technician who was also part of Washington state who examined the case and concluded it was not his fault. And that’s because of a public records request. So shout out to the lawyer and shout out to the local journalists at KING 5 who did an amazing public records request that helped Shawn as well. That request revealed that the collision technician working for the state examined the evidence and concluded it was all the fault of the trooper. In fact, emails from the Washington State Police show, despite this conclusion, commanders attempted to get a more favorable opinion on the case, and it also uncovered additional emails that they sent to prosecutors insisting they move forward against Mr. Foutch, despite the evidence showing he was innocent.

And it actually gets worse because despite the fact that Mr. Foutch does not drink, he’s a diabetic and he has not had a single drink for 30 years, state troopers forced him to do a field sobriety test, blow a breathalyzer, and have blood drawn, all of which came back negative. They even charged him with negligent driving in the second degree, which could have cost him his job. All of this to frame a man who relied on his ability to drive a truck to feed his family. And it also should be noted that Mr. Foutch spent months recuperating from the accident while living in fear he would be falsely accused of causing an accident that was not his fault. Now, I interviewed him before the show to get a sense of how this case affected his life and how it has changed his perception of law enforcement. Let’s listen to him as he explains just some of the impact this ordeal had on him.

Shawn Foutch:

In their reports, they put that they could smell alcohol. I haven’t drank since I was in my mid-20s, and I’m 53 now. So they did a breathalyzer, which came up all zeros. They did the field sobriety test, which I passed. And then they asked me if I would go down and do a voluntary blood draw, and they made it seem like it wasn’t such a voluntary thing.

And then a few months went by, and then all of a sudden, I get a negligent driving ticket in the mail. They sent it directly to the courts. They didn’t write me up or cite me or anything on-scene. [inaudible 00:16:48] financially, emotionally, all of it. Financially, because I couldn’t work. I was on light duty. And with my particular job, I couldn’t do it. So it affected me financially because I was out on labor and industries, and they were paying me less than 50% of my original wages. And then emotionally is because I was stressed all the time about whether I was going to be able to keep my CDL, whether I was going to have a job to go back to. And then physically because of my injuries and because of all of the pain that I was going through. My fingers going numb at times, not being able to sleep because of the pain and everything else.

Taya Graham:

Now, as we said before, Mr. Foutch fought back. And as a result, an independent investigation was launched, and it came to quite a different conclusion. Stephen, what eventually happened with this case?

Stephen Janis:

Well, he was totally cleared. I mean, eventually. Now this is eventually after he’d gone through this entire ordeal of having to face a breathalyzer test, of having to face the idea that he could lose his livelihood. He was cleared and the investigation was revealed because of good local journalism, and because of his lawyer, it was revealed that the cops had tried to cover this up, tried to use the levers of power to frame an innocent man and destroy his livelihood. So it was severe, but in the end, he triumphed because of the work of people who wanted to hold police accountable.

Taya Graham:

I’m sorry. I was just looking at some of these great comments. James Freeman had quite a good one. And I just have to say hi, Munkay 83. And just to acknowledge that I witnessed a copwatch by Munkay 83, the gentleman who’s in the live chat now, and I watched a police officer disappear in under 60 seconds.

Stephen Janis:

Yes.

Taya Graham:

So there’s a certain level of skill, and Munkay 83 has it. But let me get back to the topic at hand-

Stephen Janis:

Yeah, sure. Of course.

Taya Graham:

… Mr. Foutch. So what amazed me is how widespread the effort was to take away his livelihood. Have you ever witnessed anything similar in your reporting?

Stephen Janis:

Yeah. I mean, I’ve seen so many incidents where police, if they feel threatened, they’ll take a very minor, minor thing or try to frame someone, and they have so many buttons to push. I call it something like asymmetrical situating, where you are so immune to any of the tools of oppression that you use that you become completely… You become pathological. Now, there was a homicide detective in Baltimore named Kelvin Sewell, who we covered for years, who had instituted community policing down in small city called Pocomoke. And it was very successful. But they came after him really hard. And after he was fired for, I think, reasons that are completely nefarious, they looked into a 2014 accident, two years after he was fired, and charged him with misconduct in office because he didn’t charge somebody. Because he didn’t charge somebody.

So I have seen the tools of criminal justice system, the power, all the attendant power and force of criminal justice used in these ways to take, by people, who feel, I think, that they’re completely immune from any of the consequences of the power that they’re using. It’s almost like the psychology of being in this bubble where you know there’s no way you’re ever going to get arrested or charged. Any of these horrifying consequences are just improbable to you. And by being improbable, I think it creates a psychopathy, because I’ve seen it in so many ways. And this is just a perfect example. I mean, it wouldn’t have been any problem for the trooper to accept responsibility other than maybe… I don’t know. But here they’re going to destroy a man’s life, take his livelihood. So, yeah.

Taya Graham:

And there’s another good point that this trooper was a rookie. From my understanding, rookies are known… They’re told, “Look, you’re going to have a car accident your first year out there being a trooper.” So basically, it’s understood. And someone asked about the police officer… I just want you to know, the police officer walked away from the accident. And as far as I know, he had no injuries that were sustained other than perhaps just being a bit shaken up. And you can also see him walking away from the accident. So I just want to let you know that the police officer wasn’t seriously injured. And I understand your concern.

Stephen Janis:

I think if there’d been a serious injury of the police, they would’ve come down even harder. So you know by the way they just eventually-

Taya Graham:

Yes.

Stephen Janis:

If they didn’t charge him with possible, I don’t know, reckless manslaughter… Something crazy. I think you know that the trooper was… Believe me, if there were serious injuries, there would’ve been even worse consequences.

Taya Graham:

Right. And someone asked in the chat, I believe it’s my Patreon patron, Matter of Rights… Hi, Matter of Rights. Asked in the chat, “What were the consequences for the police officer? Did he actually win any money back for lost wages?” And as far as I know, the last time I spoke with Shawn, he hadn’t told me that he had been reimbursed for his wages in any way, shape or form.

Stephen Janis:

And he was getting disability pay, but it was one half of his regular pay.

Taya Graham:

Exactly. So, I mean, what he won was his right to still be a truck driver. That’s what he won.

Stephen Janis:

Yes. What he already had at that time.

Taya Graham:

Right. And as far as I know, there has not been any disciplinary action taken against the officer who was involved in attempting to push these charges against Shawn. And as far as I know, there isn’t any discipline. But if there is, I will be happy to update you because tonight is a livestream for accountability.

And speaking of a prolonged effort to hold errant police accountable, no one knows how difficult and vexing that process can be than our next guest. So earlier this year, we told the story of Indiana resident Chris Reiter and his wife Tiffany, better known as For Public Safety. So the couple were home one night when police conducted a raid. Startled at first, and later, distraught, the raid turned up nothing, prompting Chris to push back as well. And his question was simple. Why would Clark County Sheriffs target his home with the often deadly and intrusive tactic of a SWAT raid? What had he done to deserve such a troubling violation of his rights, a violation that led to Tiffany being seriously reinjured?

Well, that’s what started his years-long effort to fight back. Now, part of that fight was for public records requests for himself and to help others in his community. That led Chris to the sheriff’s department where he was also helping Joe, a father of a young man who had been severely beaten by police. He was there to help him file a complaint. But an hour after he arrived, and after multiple requests for a supervisor, police decided to arrest Chris for an outstanding warrant from 1999. I repeat, an outstanding warrant from 1999, for a single marijuana cigarette. I could not make this up, people. Take a look. First, you’ll see the raid, and then you’ll see their records request. Just watch for yourself.

Tiffany:

Coming. I’m coming. Wait.

Speaker 1:

Hold on.

Tiffany:

Wait.

Speaker 1:

Hey, we’re opening it.

Tiffany:

Wait. Wait.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Tiffany:

Oh, my God. Oh, my God-

Speaker 2:

Oh, my God! Oh, my God!

Shawn Foutch:

Can you hear me? We’ll try this one more time. We need some assistance out here please if there’s a clerk available. Okay. Yeah, probably. Would you mind coming out and speaking with us, sir? Well we’re going to have to talk about an incident we’re going to need records on. [inaudible 00:24:21]. Oh, there you are. I’m Chris.

John:

John.

Shawn Foutch:

Nice to meet you, John.

John:

Well you mind turning around and putting your hands behind your back? You have an active warrant.

Shawn Foutch:

For what?

John:

From 1999, possession of marijuana.

Shawn Foutch:

You’re full of shit.

John:

No, I’m not.

Shawn Foutch:

Yeah, you are. I have never had marijuana.

John:

Turn around and put your hands behind your back.

Shawn Foutch:

All right. Yeah, he can film.

John:

You got to put that phone down.

Shawn Foutch:

I don’t even do marijuana.

Taya Graham:

You heard it, a warrant from 1999. To explain why this has happened and what he has uncovered since, we are joined by the man himself, For Public Safety. Chris, thank you for joining me.

Shawn Foutch:

Hey, Taya. Thanks for having me.

Taya Graham:

So we’re so happy to have you back and let me just take you back. I know this raid happened a little while ago, but we have to address it. Just for the people who don’t know, tell us a little bit about the raid, what it was like, and what steps you are taking to address it.

Shawn Foutch:

Well the steps I’m taking to address it makes it where I can’t talk about it a whole lot.

Taya Graham:

Right. You don’t have to go into specific details.

Shawn Foutch:

We’re in a very active lawsuit which we’re doing very well. We’ve got great attorneys who are handling business with this as it needs to be done. It’s been a long, tough three-year road on that whole situation.

Stephen Janis:

I was going to ask you and I didn’t mean to interrupt you, but when you first experienced this raid and had these things happen to you, did you have any idea how difficult it would be to push back and what a toll it would take on you personally? Because I think sometimes people go into this and they have no idea and it’d just be interesting to hear how it has changed your perception of law enforcement.

Shawn Foutch:

It’s changed my perception of everything. First of all, I’d like to say I was one of those people who never thought something like that could happen to me. It came right very shortly after the Breonna Taylor incident happened less than 20 miles from my house. That was on everybody’s mind at the time, that raid was. Then they came through our door. To us, it was just like unreal this can happen to us and here it is. It is very violent and destructive and it turns your whole world upside down. I remember one detail I will talk about is after the five hours of them completely destroying everything and hurting us, they just left and I remember saying, “You’re just going to leave?” They said, “Yeah, you didn’t do anything. We’re leaving.” That’s how it works and then you have to figure out how to pick up all the pieces on your own.

Taya Graham:

Let me ask you a question. Someone asked, [inaudible 00:27:11] asked was this a no-knock warrant?

Shawn Foutch:

Yes, it was a no-knock warrant. They tried to bust in the door. I opened the door while they were trying to bust it in.

Taya Graham:

Okay. From my understanding, this raid is why you started your channel, not just to help you and Tiffany, but to help other community members in their efforts for transparency. Tell me a little bit about what we saw when you and Joe were attempting to file a complaint and make a records request in Hardin County. Why were you there and why did it go so poorly?

Shawn Foutch:

There was an FBI investigation being conducted on Joe’s son’s incident.

Taya Graham:

Okay.

Shawn Foutch:

I have been in touch with the FBI after our raid because we reported our particular situation to the FBI which put us kind of in conjunction with some investigators from the DOJ. So I kind of had a little bit of an open line of communication with some of those investigators. I learned by talking to one of them about Joe’s son’s incident that no complaints, there wasn’t any paper trail on the Kentucky State Police office that they were wanting to investigate, and I thought, “Well I should look into this because it doesn’t seem right that an officer would behave this way that has no complaints on him whatsoever filed.” So I contacted Joe and he told me that every time his family members or anybody had tried to go to KSP to file a complaint that they were getting turned around and pushed out and told no. I thought, “Well Joe, let me strap a camera on and I’ll come with you and see what happens.” You all saw what happened.

Stephen Janis:

Yeah. I mean I was stunned they tried to pull up, say you had a 1999 warrant. I mean first of all, was that true and what on earth, how on earth can they unearth a warrant for a marijuana cigarette? Is that even possible legally?

Shawn Foutch:

I mean it makes no sense. The charge, the whole story, it never happened. None of that ever happened. I was never cited for a marijuana cigarette in 1998 or ’99. I was never on probation. I’d never gone to court, none of that. I think they just made the whole thing up just to try to get me the heck out of their lobby.

Stephen Janis:

Do you get the sense that they grasped the gravity of what they were saying and doing? Conjuring something from your past even if it was true is so unbelievably not a crime of any sort that would impact society in any way. Do you think they grasped what they were doing to you? It’s just so hard for me to believe they say, “We’re going to go out and take a man’s freedom for something that happened in 1998.” It’s beyond my understanding. Do you think they’re just … What is wrong with the police that you were dealing with at that point?

Shawn Foutch:

Well here’s the way I think they’re seeing it, Stephen. I think they see it as, “We’re trying to protect our officers from getting federally indicted for the reason this dude’s here.” So they’re willing to fabricate a little marijuana cigarette case on somebody in order to protect one of their officers for potentially getting charged with-

Stephen Janis:

Yeah.

Shawn Foutch:

… at minimum an assault, a very heavy assault and then at maximum potentially maybe attempted murder.

Stephen Janis:

Wow.

Shawn Foutch:

They hit Josh in the face with a Maglite, one of the big, huge Maglites 28 times that you can count in the video.

Stephen Janis:

And this is a young man who was pulled over just so we understand what you’re talking about right now. Who is Josh just so I know?

Shawn Foutch:

Josh is a young man that was pulled over.

Stephen Janis:

Right. Okay.

Shawn Foutch:

He was trying to flee in his car and then he decided, “I’m not going to run anymore,” pulled over-

Stephen Janis:

Got it.

Shawn Foutch:

… and the cops yanked him out and beat him up.

Stephen Janis:

Okay. Taya, you want to-

Taya Graham:

Yeah, it was that incredibly brutal video that we saw that also involved tasering that tasered the young woman who was in the car as well who was pregnant. I mean it was really a terrible scenario.

Stephen Janis:

Let me just ask you a question. Do you feel safe now given that you’ve caused so much commotion with law enforcement in your area? Do you feel like your personal safety is in jeopardy at all honestly? Because if they’re willing to conjure up a 1998 bogus charge, what else are they willing to do?

Shawn Foutch:

Stephen, I think Tiffany and I are like the dogs backed in the corner where we got nothing left, but to bite. No, we’re not safe obviously. They’re always trying to get us somehow hemmed up whether it be a direct violence situation which we’ve encountered recently with Tiffany. She was almost … She was beaten up and almost tased in the heart by a cop just a couple weeks ago. Our direct physical safety is in jeopardy regularly, but I think more so they tend to want to utilize their positions and their authority to sort of cause damages. When you’re always recording and you’re on your toes always looking to catch them doing something wrong, it makes it very hard for them to pin anything on you because you’re transparent and they’re not. So transparency has been our protection system.

Taya Graham:

Let me go back a little to the sheriff at the heart of the raid. From my understanding, it was that raid that made you start your channel. This is really an epic sage. I think you’re aware he was hoping to be a TV star. I think he was involved with the show 90 Days In. He was hoping to maybe star on Narcoland, but instead, he’s starring in a court case with 15 felony charges. Tell us a little bit more about Sheriff Noel, the charges he’s facing, and how vindicating it is to see this accountability from the sheriff that caused you and Tiffany so much pain and so much strife.

Shawn Foutch:

Yeah. So that sheriff was responsible for it. He is the author of the show 60 Days In. They were trying to do a show, spinoff show called Narcoland, and in that, there was a few of his officers that were heavily involved in the television drama series that fabricated a lot of paperwork to do a bunch of these raids on people. That’s how ours ended up happening, but we started digging, Tiffany and I, because we needed the records from our own case. As we were finally getting somewhere with records and finally starting to see what actually happened and what was happening to other people, like I said, we were in contact with the FBI from the DOJ. As I would find things and as people would reach out to me and say, “That’s not all. What you’re exposing isn’t anything else. There’s more,” then we would find that proof and we would give that to the feds and the feds were giving it to the Indiana State Police. Ultimately, it blew up into this investigation and now you’re starting to see the outcome, which it took several years. I mean we’re almost three years in now and you’re seeing some of the charges that we have effectively as a team in this area uncovered and a lot of it was used, exposure through my and Tiffany’s YouTube channels.

Taya Graham:

Chris, I have to interrupt you right here because someone in our live chat … Because we address all comments whether positive, negative, or neutral, someone said, “15 trumped up charges. Geez.” I feel like, Chris, we need to help people understand what type of charges he’s facing. Let me start out. For example, Sheriff Jamey Noel was found with over 130 cars on his property. He was also pressuring police officers and other employees of the state to do work for him around his house like fix his HVAC system or pour concrete, all types of things, and the taxpayers paid this tab for him and the employees didn’t feel like they could say no because he was their boss. So using taxpayer money to pay people to do renovations around your house and also the 130 cars, where exactly did that come from? You know what, Chris? Let me let you take the wheel here because there’s a lot behind these 15 felony charges. To say they’re trumped up does not do them justice at all.

Shawn Foutch:

Matter of fact, they were lightened up a little bit in what was published on the mainstream news because here’s what avenue I was looking at. Yes, Jamey was ghost employing people to come work on his own properties, but do you know where those people came from, Taya? Those were people who were supposed to be watching the inmates at the jail. That’s what we reported.

Taya Graham:

Oh, my goodness.

Shawn Foutch:

We said, “Look, you’re under-staffing that jail and it’s causing problems.” There were 28 women that were victim of a really bad incident because that jail was so severely understaffed. That’s where the staff was, out lollygagging, working for Jamey.

Stephen Janis:

How do you think he became so powerful? How did this one individual able to accumulate all these cars, have people work for him? Was it sort of the hybrid … Was it becoming Mr. Hollywood? What made him so powerful?

Taya Graham:

I think him wiretapping his own office might have had something to do with it. Chris, what do you think?

Shawn Foutch:

That was the sheriff’s department that decided the wiretapping, but no, here’s what it really is. So Jamey is very established in different political roles. I mean one, he’s the Republican Party chairman for the state here, and then of course he has all these affiliates and he came from the Indiana State Police originally. So you’ve got the Indiana State Police position. You’ve got all these county politicians that he’s been involved with. Then you get the state politicians that he’s ran alongside of. Then he gets the state’s Republican Party chair. Then he takes office for sheriff and then he’s doing the TV show with the other sheriffs in all these other districts. You get a lot of political power in a position like that when you’re-

Stephen Janis:

Yeah, it’s amazing because it kind of shows how America is constantly fed this constant stream of a law enforcement entertainment industrial complex.

Taya Graham:

Yes.

Shawn Foutch:

Yeah.

Stephen Janis:

It shows you how unhealthy that can be to be combined like the power of Hollywood with the power of policing. It’s not really a good mix and it seems to be quite toxic particularly in this case. Right?

Shawn Foutch:

Yes. Yeah, absolutely. I mean they should have learned their lesson 10 years previous because Jeffersonville, Indiana, Clark County was also the epicenter of where the TV show Live PD started and that one tanked because-

Stephen Janis:

Oh, right.

Shawn Foutch:

… of all the conflict of interest.

Stephen Janis:

Right. Right. It’s really amazing to me that people think this is entertainment, watching the worst moment of someone’s life, and that Cops has existed for 30 years, kind of becoming anti-working class propaganda basically, anti-working class propaganda machine that they use sort of the fodder of an average person having a bad day as entertainment grist for billionaires in Hollywood. It’s amazing, but it is interesting to see. I mean listen. You deserve a lot of credit.

Taya Graham:

Absolutely.

Stephen Janis:

The work that you have done is astounding and it just shows that cop watching is not just about going out and filming someone from a sidewalk. You have done the hard work and you deserve a lot of appreciation from the people in your community and appreciation from journalists because you’re doing real work here. That’s an amazing accomplishment to sort of put someone in check who obviously needed to be in check.

Taya Graham:

You know what? Let me just-

Shawn Foutch:

Thank you, Stephen. Oh, I’m sorry, Taya.

Taya Graham:

No, no. I’m so sorry I interrupted you thanking Stephen because, first, I just wanted to add my kudos as well. Some of the things that you’ve uncovered, I mean we honestly-

Stephen Janis:

A reporter would win a Pulitzer for this, you know?

Taya Graham:

A reporter would win a Pulitzer for this and honestly-

Stephen Janis:

Or maybe.

Taya Graham:

… we could spend four hours in the livestream just talking to Chris just unwinding all the things that he has uncovered seriously and I tell you you wouldn’t be bored for a moment. Make sure you go check out his channel, For Public Safety-

Stephen Janis:

For Public Safety.

Taya Graham:

… because he has some amazing videos there, some playlists that’ll help you understand it, help you learn it all. I just want to ask you one final question before we let you go. A lot of people ask me and I’m sure you’ve had people turn to you and ask you this as well. When you were going through your process of filing your lawsuit, you had two lawyers who didn’t do you justice to say the least. You actually ended up having to file pro se. I just want to not ask about the specifics of the lawsuit at all, but just what the process is like to try to file your own pro se lawsuit, a little bit about your experience, and if you have any advice for people who want to file a lawsuit for harm.

Shawn Foutch:

Yeah. Well Official Misconduct sitting here with me, she was the one that was able to actually figure out how to get it in documentation form and get it turned in. It took the two of us as a team working our butts off to figure out how to do a lawsuit of that size and stature. I guess my biggest recommendation is if you truly have a situation that really requires a full-blown lawsuit like that like back injuries and major damages and property that’s been destroyed, of course I’m going to recommend try to find an attorney. That is not as easy as it sounds. You need to stay on the phone 24 hours a … Well they’re not open 24 hours.

Stephen Janis:

Right.

Shawn Foutch:

From 8:00 AM until 5:00 PM, five days a week until you get that lawyer established and make sure that it’s a good civil rights lawyer, but if you do have to do it yourself, study, study, study, and you need allies. You need people that you can talk to. You need to be involved. You need to get out there and become one with the people in the legal system, other attorneys, even police officers and chiefs of police and people at the courthouse and the clerks. You need to get involved because you need to learn their world and you need to learn it quick if you’re going to file a lawsuit.

Stephen Janis:

Wow.

Shawn Foutch:

There’s a lot.

Stephen Janis:

It’s interesting to me because there’s so much cynicism in this world and yet you see people like Chris and we’ll be talking to Otto who have fought back one way or another whether it be using the system, the system that seems unavailable to them, but they’ve been smart and courageous and also innovative enough to actually turn that system around. That’s what I love about the story of cop watchers and stories like Chris because he really just said, “I don’t have a high-priced lawyer. I’m just going to find a way to do it,” and then he finally got a lawyer and now look at the results. This is a testament to the power of cop watching, the power of grassroots movements and organizing. I think it’s pretty amazing, Chris.

Shawn Foutch:

Yeah. Thank you, Stephen. I just want people to know you can do it if you put your mind to it.

Stephen Janis:

That’s a beautiful thing.

Shawn Foutch:

If you would let me address you were talking about the support, I do want to say this while I have the opportunity on such an amazing platform as what you all have for me here. Thank you so much for allowing me to come up here and say this. We couldn’t be, Tiffany and I could not be more happy and grateful for the amount of support that we’ve got from all the people in this world, on television, and from our locals and even some of the people in the government system that have been helpful for us, including the attorneys. We couldn’t have done it without you.

Stephen Janis:

Well that’s great.

Taya Graham:

Aw, that’s beautiful, Chris.

Stephen Janis:

That’s a great note to end on.

Taya Graham:

That’s a beautiful note to end on especially considering the season we’re in. I just want to say you might have noticed I threw up a comment from Official Misconduct. That’s Chris’s other half.

Stephen Janis:

Yes, Tiffany.

Taya Graham:

You know what? I think … I know her name.

Stephen Janis:

No, I was just saying. Yeah, yeah. It’s true. You do.

Taya Graham:

I’m just saying we might have to do a ladies night Cop Watcher special. So let me know if that’s something you might be interested in. I’m thinking Laura Shark. I’m thinking Official Misconduct. If there are any lady cop watchers that you think I should talk to, please let me know because I think it might be cool to have a ladies night.

Stephen Janis:

Well thank you, Chris.

Taya Graham:

Thank you so much, Chris.

Stephen Janis:

Please-

Shawn Foutch:

Thank you all and it’s always such a pleasure to talk to you two. Love you guys.

Stephen Janis:

Love you too.

Taya Graham:

Aw. The pleasure’s ours.

Stephen Janis:

Yeah.

Taya Graham:

Now, this is … Okay. I’m getting the warm fuzzies right now. Okay.

Stephen Janis:

Well Taya, just to … People are very jaded about our system.

Taya Graham:

Yeah.

Stephen Janis:

But in a way, Cop Watchers and the people who do this themselves are affirmation of our system-

Taya Graham:

Yes.

Stephen Janis:

… that a single person, a husband and wife who have faced an oppressive police can turn it around on their very own with a YouTube channel and their own ingenuity. I feel like that’s a pretty wonderful message in a world where we feel kind of like we’re all incapable of changing things. It’s something to think about, right?

Taya Graham:

Absolutely. I think I’m starting to see some support for the idea so I’m very excited.

Stephen Janis:

Okay. Good.

Taya Graham:

This is a perfect segue from Chris is our next guest, another cop watcher who’s experienced firsthand the extreme lengths the police will go to to pursue someone who refuses to be cowed by them and perhaps would even dare to make fun of them. He’s one of our favorite regulars, a longtime cop watcher and a bit of a comedian, and his run-ins with Texas Police are legendary. What started as a dispute over a sign that some residents allegedly deemed offensive in Royse, Texas turned into a years-long ordeal for him which has finally come to some resolution and some good news, more good news like I promised you. But first before we talk to Otto, we want to show you, our audience, how absurd the battle with law enforcement has been. I just want to play a small clip of Otto being threatened for holding a sign. Just look.

Speaker 3:

We’ve been through this before.

Otto:

Yes, we have. So why are you here?

Speaker 3:

I’m here because I got a call, a complaint from people of the city, citizens. They’re complaining about you.

Otto:

What are they complaining of?

Speaker 3:

Your sign.

Otto:

Okay. Looks pretty peaceful to me, man.

Speaker 3:

We got phone calls. People come by. They’re not going to stand here and confront you because they don’t know what kind of idiot you are.

Otto:

Wait. Hey, fuck you. I’m not an idiot.

Speaker 3:

I didn’t say you were.

Otto:

Yes, you did.

Speaker 3:

I said they don’t know what kind you are.

Otto:

Okay. Well why don’t you get back in your car and go away?

Speaker 3:

Why don’t you want to try something?

Otto:

What do you mean try something? Try what?

Speaker 3:

You telling me what I’ve got to do. No, I don’t have to-

Otto:

I’m not breaking the law.

Speaker 3:

I said-

Otto:

So go away.

Speaker 3:

… you told me to go away, what you wanted to do.

Otto:

I want you to go away. I want you to leave me alone.

Speaker 3:

No, I’m not going to. I’m not going to at all.

Otto:

You’re now impeding my First Amendment right to free speech.

Speaker 3:

No, I’m not. I’m asking you what you’re doing here.

Otto:

I’m giving away food. I told you that.

Speaker 3:

I have seen no one come up here for food.

Otto:

How long have you been here?

Speaker 3:

How long? Well I’m going to stay here to see how long it takes you to find one person.

Speaker 4:

You know you’re soliciting without a permit. You text me earlier, Otto.

Otto:

Yeah, I told you that I was going to give food away.

Speaker 4:

Which is not your real name by the way. We do have a complainant that’s willing to sign a statement against you.

Otto:

Okay.

Speaker 4:

… for the language on the sign.

Otto:

Oh, well that’s not even a crime, is it? So what if I get somebody that says they’re not offended by the sign?

Speaker 4:

Doesn’t matter. I have a complainant.

Otto:

How does that make it-

Speaker 4:

Either you’re not going to use the sign or you are. If you’re going to use the sign, then you’re going to be under arrest for disorderly conduct.

Taya Graham:

And now joining us as our final guest of 2023 is the inimicable, the incomparable Otto the Watchdog. Otto, thank you for being here.

Otto:

Hey, I’m glad to be here. Thanks for having me.

Taya Graham:

So that first video clip comes from a playlist on your channel called Otto versus Hawk Cove and it’s where you experience some police pushback for your sign allegedly because it had profanity on it although I do think it’s debatable if any drivers were truly offended enough to call the police. But be that as it may, this isn’t your only infringement of your First Amendment rights for holding a sign on the side of the road. I just want to mention to people these signs did not contain threats, mentions of specific political parties. They simply explained a simple, heartfelt truism. Otto, tell me about the lawsuit you filed that you just won and I believe it’s in Royse City. You’ve got to tell me about the flop, the nonviolent resistance.

Stephen Janis:

That’s a lot of questions. Why don’t we answer the Royse City-

Taya Graham:

Okay. Tell me about Royse City and then later tell me about the flop.

Otto:

Okay. I filed the lawsuit against Royse City.

Shawn Foutch:

So, I filed the lawsuit against Royse City. It was actually not from that specific incident that you just showed. It was the next day. I was holding the same signs, and they arrested for displaying those signs. So, the flop. I was charged with felony resisting arrest on that, and in depositions, they said I was resisting because I was using the force of gravity against the officers.

Taya Graham:

Sorry. I’m sorry.

Shawn Foutch:

So, gravity.

Stephen Janis:

The force of gravity. Sorry, Otto.

Taya Graham:

I’m sorry. That’s so unprofessional, but that is so crazy.

Stephen Janis:

Wait, Otto. Go ahead, go ahead. Finish what you were saying. I’m sorry. We were laughing.

Shawn Foutch:

I could not have written that as a joke. You know what I mean?

Taya Graham:

So good.

Shawn Foutch:

It’s just too ridiculous. I wouldn’t have written that. It wouldn’t have been funny if it didn’t come out of their mouth, you know what I mean?

Stephen Janis:

Right.

Shawn Foutch:

Right.

Stephen Janis:

Go ahead. I’m sorry. Go ahead.

Shawn Foutch:

No, they were serious.

Stephen Janis:

Yeah. Yeah.

Shawn Foutch:

It wasn’t a joke for them.

Stephen Janis:

Right.

Shawn Foutch:

Yeah.

Stephen Janis:

It was interesting, because when I was watching the video, the first video, it was interesting because the police officer says something that I hear over and over again, and I want you to talk about this. He says, “You’re not going to tell me what to do.” And it seems cop watchers have a penchant for challenging that idea. Do you notice that cops get pretty upset when you say, when you start telling them go away or something? That seems to really trigger them?

Shawn Foutch:

Oh, absolutely. They don’t like it one bit. As a matter of fact, James Freeman has probably one of the most triggering phrases that there is, and that is, “You are dismissed.”

Taya Graham:

Ooh.

Shawn Foutch:

They absolutely hate it, and it’s true. I mean, there’s no reason for them to be there. They’re putting themselves there. They just will not leave.

Stephen Janis:

Right.

Shawn Foutch:

So, go away. I mean, just stop.

Stephen Janis:

Right.

Shawn Foutch:

It wouldn’t have been an incident if they had just left.

Stephen Janis:

Wow. I mean, because I think some of the things about cop watchers, as we talked about them tonight, and particularly in your case, is that you kind of, by challenging that authority that they seem to have over space, where they can tell anyone what to do, you bring out an absurdity of police power in supposedly a constitutional democracy or whatever. And it seems like every time you push them on that, they seem to do something crazier. It almost seems to make them crazy, right?

Shawn Foutch:

I don’t know what it is.

Stephen Janis:

Yeah.

Shawn Foutch:

I guess.

Stephen Janis:

I’m thinking of the time-

Shawn Foutch:

I don’t know why they just can’t let it go. I guess it might be part of their training or something. But if they start, if they initiate the process, they can’t just stop doing it. They have to continue.

Stephen Janis:

Right.

Shawn Foutch:

It never stops with let me see your ID. Then you hand them your ID, and then they have another question. There’s always another question.

Stephen Janis:

Right.

Shawn Foutch:

That is part of their training, to continuously have another question. It doesn’t matter what the answer is.

Stephen Janis:

But is it their training, or is just something about the power, the cultural power of policing? Because what I love about your video is, the time you were bowing down to the cop, you kind of exposed that sense of if I come into a situation, I can control all the events, even though there’s a Constitution that says they can’t do that. It’s almost like you’re kind of delving into the psychology of police, which is showing how absurd is it they can order someone around for apparently no reason.

Shawn Foutch:

Right. Well, I was not arrested for bowing to them. Okay? So, keep that in mind. Take it for what it is.

Stephen Janis:

Right, right. Right.

Shawn Foutch:

And as you said, I’m a comedian. I got in this trying to tell jokes. I just wanted to be funny. I don’t align with a political party specifically. I try to stay in the middle and just make fun of whatever it is that’s funny, and sometimes, that’s hard. Sometimes it’s real hard.

Stephen Janis:

Yeah.

Shawn Foutch:

And you have to get a little bit dark on it.

Stephen Janis:

Yeah.

Shawn Foutch:

But I’m just out there telling jokes, and if they don’t like it, they could look away. They don’t have to be there. They can leave. They can just go away. It’s fine.

Stephen Janis:

Yeah.

Taya Graham:

That’s a really good point. There’s a lot of situations I’ve seen on body camera or cell phone camera where the police officers actually had the discretion to just leave. They were under no obligation to keep pressing or escalating the situation, and sometimes I wonder, why didn’t they just walk away?

Shawn Foutch:

Did we get Otto’s information about what happened with his lawsuit? Did he say?

Taya Graham:

Oh. Well, you know what? Oh, by the way. The channel is Otto the Watchdog. Someone asked, and I wanted to answer.

Stephen Janis:

Yeah.

Taya Graham:

If you want to go see, it’s Otto the Watchdog. It’s on the YouTube, and it’s on the Facebook as well.

Stephen Janis:

But, yeah. Otto, did you tell us, did you win your lawsuit, or what happened?

Shawn Foutch:

Oh, I filed a lawsuit against Royse City specifically, and also in Rockwall, which is the town next door, and I won both of those lawsuits.

Stephen Janis:

Wow, congratulations.

Shawn Foutch:

The payout was a little over $100,000 combined.

Stephen Janis:

Whoa.

Taya Graham:

Oh my gosh, I’m so happy for you.

Stephen Janis:

Are you going to become a monthly sustainer of The Real News?

Shawn Foutch:

Well, I mean. Yeah, I guess so. I guess so. But the problem is that I wanted them to stop violating people. I was initially irritated at my local sheriff’s department because they would drive fast and down in front of the road, they would speed, in front of the road, constantly pull people over on that road. License plate, lights, pre-textual stops, a lot of that. And it bothered me. And then I started looking. I found that you can look up public information, and I looked up the blotter, and I found that most of the people who are arrested are from out of town, right? So, it’s just people passing through town.

Stephen Janis:

Yeah.

Shawn Foutch:

Probably going to work or something like that.

Stephen Janis:

That is true. Yeah.

Shawn Foutch:

And heaven forbid they should have a license plate light that went out.

Stephen Janis:

Yeah.

Shawn Foutch:

Or things of that sort. And it just spiraled into people sending me reports of corruption, and then I would look into that, and it just continued into what you have today.

Stephen Janis:

Yeah. Otto, I want to get a little personal with you.

Shawn Foutch:

Sure.

Stephen Janis:

Because you told me a story, when we were working on a bigger project about cop watching, and you told me a story that I thought was really interesting. You said, “I was kind of feeling like.” It was about the signs. You said, “I was kind of feeling angry. I was angry, but I didn’t want to be an angry person. So I started creating signs, and that’s when I came up with the, I won’t say the word, and stuff.”

Shawn Foutch:

Right.

Stephen Janis:

Can you talk a little bit about that? Because I think that’s really interesting that you decided to channel that into what you were doing, kind of your art, so to speak.

Shawn Foutch:

Yeah. So, I’ve always tried to make things funny, tried to make bad things, lighten it up so that nobody feels crummy. And when you talk about problems, nobody really wants to listen. They don’t really care what the problem is or what the solution is. They just want to talk about it. So, I was trying to figure out a way to get people engaged in something, just engaged at all. And I thought that something that had absolutely no meaning when you just looked at it, but it does have a meaning. Everybody, you can understand the meaning, but it doesn’t tell you what I’m talking about. And then you can just fill in the blank. And that took me some time to come up with, a couple of phrases that fit that bill. And I wrote them down on signs, poster boards from the dollar store. And it was funny.

Stephen Janis:

Yeah.

Shawn Foutch:

It was funny. Most of the people would stop and just take a photo and post it on Facebook.

Stephen Janis:

Wow.

Shawn Foutch:

So, it was mostly just an impromptu stopping and getting it kind of thing.

Taya Graham:

You know, I wish I could play this for folks, but perhaps someone in the chat can let people know where, if they want to hear a song that Otto and another cop watcher and activist named Eric Grant in Colorado created. It was called Happy Something the Cops Day. And if you would like to find out about it, I am sure there’s someone in the chat that can direct you either to Otto’s channel or the song itself, if you’re interested in some of the ways that Otto uses humor to express himself.

Now, because one of the themes tonight is when the coverup is worse than the crime, in the case of the city of Hawk Cove, it seems to me that the police department and city hall’s attempt to cover up the crime of misusing the law caused a judge to be forced out of office. I mean, he wasn’t even allowed to resign. He was terminated after he signed his resignation in protest, and this is an amazing case, because this happened when a judge was standing up for the law, and he was punished for it, and you’re right in the middle of this case. You’ve got to tell us more about it.

Stephen Janis:

Yes.

Shawn Foutch:

Yeah. So, the very first time I brought out the sign was, so, I have to back up a little bit. I was giving away, I was going to food banks and collecting food for several houses and taking it to them because they didn’t have a car. And then, the church where I was picking up the food boxes found out about that and decided that I could do more, I could help more people, if I had more stuff, and for whatever reason, they gave me a truckload of potatoes and carrots and stuff like that. And I had already been looking into some stories in Hawk Cove, and I’ve got friends and family there. Hi, by the way. So, I went out there and I’d called the chief, or I’d texted the Chief of Police, Rhonda McKean, that morning and let her know that I was going to be doing that, and she told me I’d need a permit, which I disagreed with, and that was what brought the signs with me that morning.

And anyway, so they ended up giving me a ticket. It took four officers an hour and a half to decide that the most appropriate ticket, or the most appropriate thing to do to me was to issue me a citation for solicitation, because I didn’t have a permit to give the food away. Well, there was no ordinance by which to cite me under, so they wrote it after the fact and just kind of slipped it in there, into the rule book. So, they wrote the ordinance after they wrote me the ticket.

Stephen Janis:

What?

Shawn Foutch:

And then back dated it and slipped it into the code book.

Stephen Janis:

So, who’s they?

Taya Graham:

Okay, so this is incredible. Okay. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, one second. Because I was trying to look up ordinance 100-11 online. This explains why I can’t find it, because it doesn’t actually exist. It was written just for you, back dated, and slipped into a pile of files? Just for you?

Shawn Foutch:

Yes.

Stephen Janis:

Without any sort of legislative function? It wasn’t the council that passed this? The police department literally just made up a law?

Taya Graham:

Well, I think the city council was in on it. Right, Otto?

Stephen Janis:

Were they in on it?

Shawn Foutch:

Yeah, but so, the council, you’re correct, Steven. That’s the proper method, right?

Stephen Janis:

Yeah.

Shawn Foutch:

It is written, and then it is read twice at council meeting.

Stephen Janis:

Right.

Shawn Foutch:

In an open council meeting.

Stephen Janis:

Yeah.

Shawn Foutch:

And then the council votes on it.

Stephen Janis:

And adopts it.

Shawn Foutch:

And then it becomes an official ordinance.

Stephen Janis:

Yup.

Shawn Foutch:

None of that was done. They just wrote it, back dated it for the day before, because there was a council meeting the night before.

Stephen Janis:

Wow.

Shawn Foutch:

So, they back dated it for the day before, and then wrote me a ticket for it the next.

Stephen Janis:

So, they back dated as if the council had approved it when they had not.

Shawn Foutch:

Yes. As if the process had been done.

Stephen Janis:

Right, yeah. Wow.

Shawn Foutch:

And I had, my local contact there let me know that this was happening, and then that was the day that Freeman and I showed up.

Stephen Janis:

Wow.

Shawn Foutch:

To attend the council meeting in which they were discussing the termination of the judge.

Stephen Janis:

Wow.

Shawn Foutch:

Right. So, the judge actually had written, or had contacted the mayor, and told the mayor that this ordinance was invalid, and what had been done with it, and he didn’t do anything about it. He didn’t say anything or make any changes. And then I go to court on that, and the ordinance was still in place as if it was okay. And the judge dismissed my citation. And if I had the experience and education that I do now at the time, I would have filed official complaints and lawsuits on that, because it’s, this is absolutely egregious. I just wasn’t capable at the time.

Stephen Janis:

But you know, it’s really interesting you should say that.

Shawn Foutch:

Yeah.

Stephen Janis:

Because just as we talked to Chris Reader, you were someone, again, who was unfamiliar with the law, and now you’re quite familiar with the law, right? So, you kind of taught yourself, just like he did, just like Eric Brant, who we’ll talk about a little bit later. You kind of taught yourself the law, right? This is all something you’ve learned in the process.

Shawn Foutch:

Absolutely.

Stephen Janis:

And I guess what’s interesting, what have you learned? I mean, what’s your big takeaway from all the things you’ve gone through? Through the lawsuits, the charges of felony camping. All the crazy stuff that’s been thrown at you as a person, what’s your takeaway from it? Just out of curiosity.

Shawn Foutch:

Oh, man. Trying to narrow it down would be-

Stephen Janis:

I know. I know.

Shawn Foutch:

Oh, man. So, getting past the intellectual stuff, learning law and the process of the law, and actually, more about my rights than I ever could have imagined when I picked up the sign for the first time. And besides all the intellectual stuff, I’ve learned that random strangers can come out of the woodwork and absolutely save your bacon. And if it wasn’t for people coming around and helping people that need it when they need it, there would be a lot of us.

Stephen Janis:

Yeah.

Shawn Foutch:

Victims of police. I don’t even want to say misconduct or whatever, because it’s never misconduct according to them, right?

Stephen Janis:

True.

Shawn Foutch:

But victims of police behavior.

Stephen Janis:

Yeah.

Shawn Foutch:

We would be in a much tighter spot.

Stephen Janis:

Okay.

Taya Graham:

I just want to ask, and actually, this is a question for both you and Steven, because I think Hawk Cove might be an example of the over-policing that we see in a lot of small towns and rural areas, where police departments really have to work to justify their salaries, and they struggle to generate fines and revenues for the city, and the way they do it is usually by ticketing and citing just the regular folks. And in the beginning of this exploitation of the small town, and this is according to a change.org petition. This town’s roughly 500 people. Property taxes were increased by 53% in 2022. Their sewer bill was increased by 52%, and they had an intake of one million dollars in January 2023, and this is a town of 500 people. So, I mean, Hawk Cove actually has the highest rate for taxes on sewers in all of north Texas. So there’s just so many ways that governance works to exploit the population, and policing is often the tip of the spear. I mean, taxation, water tax. I mean, that’s all part of it.

Stephen Janis:

Well.

Taya Graham:

So, Steven, Otto, what are some examples to you that come to mind when it comes to seeing over-policing and aggressive taxation? It seems like it’s a pattern to me.

Stephen Janis:

Well, Otto, do you want to go first? Or you want me to go?

Shawn Foutch:

I’m going to say that all those things that you just mentioned are the least of the problems in Hawk Cove.

Taya Graham:

Wow.

Stephen Janis:

Wow.

Taya Graham:

Wow.

Stephen Janis:

Yeah.

Shawn Foutch:

I mean, the tax rate. Who really cares about the tax rate? I mean, the sewers are jacked up. They’ve never worked. There was a multi-million dollar project on those sewers. It never worked.

Taya Graham:

Oh my gosh.

Shawn Foutch:

The city maintenance has been accused, and they say that it’s not true, but there’s so many things that are going on, all right? The tax rate being way higher than it’s actually even legally allowed to be for a town that size. The city has fudged their residence numbers for years.

Stephen Janis:

Wow.

Shawn Foutch:

In order to get more funding and qualify for grants and things of that sort. So, even their population numbers are inaccurate. I don’t trust the 500 number. I’ve also heard 741, and I don’t trust either one of those numbers. I don’t think we have an accurate count. And that’s just the beginning. It can just continue on from there.

Stephen Janis:

Yeah. I mean, one thing I’ve noticed about policing in small towns is that there are many small towns we report on like Milton, West Virginia, or even Pocomoke City, Maryland, where they have a very well-funded police department but, as Otto points out, their water systems in both cities are completely below grade, and have serious problems cited by the EPA. And it seems like policing sucks up a lot of resources that would be better spent on improving a community. So, don’t worry about your drinking water, but there is someone standing by a stop sign who will write you a ticket if you roll through it. And I think it’s exemplar of the disconnect between the people who have the power and the working class who does not, and police are the perfect boundary setters for that. And that’s why you see these situations today.

Taya Graham:

I think Otto, and please correct me if I’m wrong, you mentioned something in that Hawk Cove case, that these officers who were involved in creating a new ordinance and being a part of that, that each one of those officers actually has received a promotion. Is that correct?

Shawn Foutch:

I’m not sure about that. They don’t really have, in Hawk Cove, they don’t really have far to be promoted.

Taya Graham:

Oh, okay.

Shawn Foutch:

They already rule absolutely everything.

Taya Graham:

Oh, okay.

Stephen Janis:

Right.

Shawn Foutch:

But in my other cases, in the sign case with the flop in Roy City.

Taya Graham:

Okay.

Shawn Foutch:

Officer Dial is now a Lieutenant.

Taya Graham:

Wow.

Shawn Foutch:

And he is in charge of receiving the complaints for the department.

Taya Graham:

Oh my gosh.

Shawn Foutch:

Which must be very convenient.

Stephen Janis:

That’s ironic.

Taya Graham:

Oh, that’s horrifying. Ironic, indeed.

Shawn Foutch:

Yeah. Short was elected Mayor, re-elected Mayor after that. So he’s Mayor of McClendon-Chisholm. He’s also a Sergeant at a different police department down the road. And Officer Landingrock in Rockwall that arrested me for flipping her off has also been promoted, so she’s now a Sergeant and doing field training for other officers.

Taya Graham:

So incredible.

Stephen Janis:

Hey, Otto. I want to ask you a question, because I’ve always wondered. When you do the flop, I can kind of, there’s not much audio. What do the cops around you say when you flop? Just so people know, Otto just, they came up to him, he had the sign, they were going to arrest him, and he just flops down on the ground. It’s kind of a technique of many activists. But what do they say when you do that? Do they say anything to you?

Shawn Foutch:

I don’t think they said anything immediately. Dial told me to roll over, which I wasn’t going to move. I didn’t want to be resisting any further.

Stephen Janis:

Right, right.

Shawn Foutch:

You know what I mean? Or assaulting an officer. I’d hate to roll over one of their toes. I think everybody was just pretty stunned. Maybe a little bit disappointed. Maybe they were afraid that they were going to have to carry me to the car. I don’t know.

Stephen Janis:

Okay.

Shawn Foutch:

I don’t know. I just knew that-

Stephen Janis:

I’m sorry to throw it in there. I was just curious.

Shawn Foutch:

Yeah. I just knew that I didn’t want to participate in their shenanigans.

Stephen Janis:

Understood.

Taya Graham:

Fair enough. That is honestly quite fair.

Shawn Foutch:

I tell everybody, of course talk to your attorney. I am not an attorney, and I’m damn sure not your attorney. But talk to your attorney. If you feel like flopping is good for you, take a couple practice runs before you do it.

Taya Graham:

Well, I have to admit, something I thought was really interesting when you told me about it is that you said that a lot of civil rights activists use passive non-resistance. You don’t resist, but you don’t participate in your own, as some people call it, in your own kidnapping or your own false imprisonment. And you just took it to another level.

Shawn Foutch:

I did. I did.

Taya Graham:

Like Otto just has a way of doing. I just wanted to make sure, because I think you touched on this, there’s a court case that I’m sure must be near and dear to your heart, and actually someone in the chat mentioned it. It’s Cohen v. California, and that’s the Supreme Court case that famously held one man’s vulgarity is another’s lyric. And so, this court case is so important because even speech that is undignified or offensive to others is still worthy of protection, and without this protection, the government almost has limitless power over our speech. So, you recently, I believe, won another lawsuit to protect freedom of speech. Can you just tell us a little bit about the process and just let people know how hard it is to fight one of these cases? Because I think people hear a cop watcher won a lawsuit here, or a cop watcher won a lawsuit there, and they don’t know how many years it takes, the process.

Shawn Foutch:

I was arrested on December 16th of 2018, and the case finally settled in, actually it was either February or June of 2023. So, you can add that up. That’s pretty typical. It takes a lot. I, of course, recommend an attorney. Well, I would recommend an attorney, but then I would preface that by saying a competent attorney. And those are even more rare than an attorney that’s willing to take a case that’s going against the establishment. So, it is definitely a challenge, and you do have to work very hard. I was fortunate enough, about halfway through my process, my court cases, that I found an attorney that was willing to help me find a criminal defense attorney, because my criminal cases just dragged on forever. No convictions, by the way. No convictions. I have no criminal convictions. I did plead guilty to a speeding ticket, which I was speeding, so. It was a speed trap, and we can discuss speed traps and their efficacy at a later time.

Stephen Janis:

That is a whole show.

Shawn Foutch:

But, I think that’s pretty good for a person who’s been arrested at least a dozen times.

Stephen Janis:

Yeah.

Shawn Foutch:

Probably somewhere around 15 or 20. So, I’m very well-versed on how the discretion of an officer can turn your life around, and if I had stood up for my rights every time that they were about to violated or was violated, I would have been probably 30 or 40 times that I’ve been taken to jail. Because it truly does depend on the education level of the individual officer that you happen to be dealing with at the time.

Taya Graham:

Let me just ask you a very quick question, because someone in the chat asked this. Joe Deed, she said, “Can nothing be done to help Eric Brant?”

Stephen Janis:

Yeah, [inaudible 01:12:00] Eric Brant. Yeah.

Taya Graham:

If you can just give me a-

Taya Graham:

Eric Brandt.

Stephen Janis:

Yeah. I do want to bring up Eric Brandt.

Taya Graham:

If you can just give me…

Stephen Janis:

An update.

Taya Graham:

Just a quick update. Just for people who don’t know, Eric Brandt was an activist for the unhoused in Denver, Colorado. He was a First Amendment activist. He was known for some of his more impressive stunts. He would dress up in a Pikachu onesie or go to court wearing an American flag as a sarong.

Shawn Foutch:

Or spaghetti strainer.

Taya Graham:

Or spaghetti strainer on his head because his religion was Pastafarianism. He was a very creative person. But unfortunately, he was imprisoned for violent threats against judges. It was a matter of speech. The courts unfortunately decided that instead of just receiving three years for the threats, he would receive three years, three years, three years, three years consecutively, meaning a twelve-year sentence for speech. So just for people who didn’t know Eric Brandt’s story. In the chat was asked, how is Eric doing? Is there any update on his case?

Shawn Foutch:

So he’s still appealing some of the details of that case, and that of course takes a very long time. Usually, it takes just about as long as it does just to get out of jail on your own. They’re going to stick him for as long as possible, for sure. Other than that, he’s in good spirits. He’s currently in a leadership role and writing bylaws for the Committee of Inmates, so he never quit. He’s still very much an activist. He’s still helping people out just like he always has, just a little bit different now. Taking things a little bit slower.

Taya Graham:

Yeah. Well, thank you so much for sharing that.

Stephen Janis:

Yeah, thank you, Otto.

Taya Graham:

And for that update. I’m sure there are quite a few people in the chat who really appreciated that. And Otto, I just want to thank you for joining us and showing everyone that even if it’s a long fight, even if it’s a struggle, you can win it. And also giving us the good news. I mean, unfortunately that judge being terminated isn’t good news, but we shouldn’t be surprised that Otto was smack in the middle of it. So we just want to thank you again for your humor, for your activism for the First Amendment, and just in general being a good friend to us. So thank you, Otto.

Stephen Janis:

Yeah, thanks, Otto.

Shawn Foutch:

I appreciate you guys. I hope that everything works out well for you.

Taya Graham:

Thank you. Thank you so much.

Shawn Foutch:

Have a good night.

Stephen Janis:

Good night.

Taya Graham:

Good night. So just so for anyone who didn’t know, you might have seen it in the live chat, his YouTube channel is Otto The Watchdog, and you can find that on YouTube or Facebook.

Stephen Janis:

Absolutely. It’s one of my favorite channels.

Taya Graham:

Stephen, before I share my final thoughts, I wanted to refer back to the poll. I promised at the beginning we were going to take a look at our community post the poll and see what the results are to see how important copwatchers are to people. Well, look at that. Yes, copwatchers affect police behavior, a good effect, too, 73%. Yes, copwatchers affect police behavior with bad results, 7%. No, copwatchers have little to no effect on police behavior, 20%.

Stephen Janis:

Okay, I think that’s a resounding yes that copwatching is an important function, is an important part of the accountability process and an involving part of the journalism process. Several times we’ve talked about it being sort of a movement, right?

Taya Graham:

Yes.

Stephen Janis:

And we likened it, and you likened it in some of our shows to punk music because of the way it thwarts conventions. But as Otto was saying, it’s almost like each copwatcher is their own individual artist in some way, because Otto’s response to what he felt… And also, I think Otto showed that it’s deeper than just the idea of going out and watching a cop, because the first thing he did wasn’t to go out and put a camera on a police officer, but the first thing he did was to make a sign. A sign that expressed how he was feeling. And his expression of dismay with the current state of affairs turned out to attract police of all things.

And so I think that shows that there’s more to copwatching than just simply putting a cell phone on a police officer. Even when you’re talking about Eric Brandt, I mean, he was a prolific filer of lawsuits. He was a winner of many lawsuits, First Amendment lawsuits against a variety of Denver institutions. One time he actually won a lawsuit with the Colorado State Supreme Court because they had arrested him and charged him for trying to inform jurors of juror notification outside the courthouse in Denver. So copwatching, to call it just about copwatching, I think is something that we’ve talked about a lot. But you can see from Otto or from Chris Ryder, there’s a lot more going on.

And even when we’re talking about James Freeman, which I think is a really good example, we wrote a very extensive article about copwatching, about how people like James Freeman were taking it inside the courts and watching the court process. Because as they confronted police, they realized that the courts were basically the final arbiter on what would happen out in the streets. And so James has started covering a courthouse in New Mexico and they pushed back on him and tried to eject him from the courthouse or make it so that he could not go to the courthouse.

But that just shows you how adaptable this is, because I think James had realized that when we talked to him and we interviewed him on the show, that he had realized that if he didn’t go into the courtroom and there was just more problems with the judicial process itself than what was going out in the street, was actually where the real power was. And he adopted his methods to deal with that. So I think copwatchers in a way, and I know you were going to ask me this question and I jumped the gun. I am sorry.

Taya Graham:

That’s okay.

Stephen Janis:

But I think it’s reflective of there’s two things going on with it. Number one is there is dismay that we live in a society where people go broke when they get sick. And that you have a guy who can drive his truck and no fault of his own get into accident and they’ll take away his license. People put in jail out of retribution. So there’s that dismay that governance is not working and is not working for the people, but also an affirmation that it can be changed by the people. We can flip the script, reverse the roles, and it’s not all the power does not belong to the people who actually have it right now that we can in a great American tradition, subvert power. And I think that’s why I kind of…

Okay, I’m a journalist. I’m supposed to be, as you would call objective, but I kind of fall in love with cop watching in a lot of ways because it’s so creative. And I think that’s partly missing from journalism too, because journalism can be sort of administrative and institutional and can become bureaucratic in its own way. Though not at the Real News because we have a lot of creative people who do a lot of wonderful things.

But copwatchers invigorate me because I see people just adapting. They’re adapting to the technology of YouTube, James Freeman’s skits and Otto’s signs and Eric Brandt. I mean, some people love him, some people hate him. But Eric Brandt is singular. And from that perspective, I feel in a way that it is inspiring and they have taken the system that was foreign to them, and they have learned it better than the police and the people who are trying to thwart them. And that is significant. And that just shows that we’re a creative country. People gave us rights 225 years ago, and we’ve learned how to use them and use them against the people who don’t want us to have them. So that’s kind of how I feel about it.

Taya Graham:

I think you made, of course, excellent points. And I think one of the things that we see is that copwatchers first, they’re reshaping the narrative. They’re showing people that they have some power, they can take their power back. Secondly, when copwatchers go out into the world and they turn the camera on police and they’re changing the narrative, we know because we were reporting on it.

Stephen Janis:

We’re we the storytellers.

Taya Graham:

Ten years ago when someone had an incident where there was police brutality or police misconduct, the first thing they do would print someone’s mugshot in criminal record. Whether it was a traffic ticket 20 years previously, they would make sure that you would see the criminal history of the person to sort of invalidate any claims they might have that this police officer violated their constitutional rights. So it shows people reframing the narrative.

Stephen Janis:

I think it’s a good point.

Taya Graham:

I think it’s really inspiring.

Stephen Janis:

I mean, the greatest tool against a working class is the criminal code, right?

Taya Graham:

Absolutely.

Stephen Janis:

You can ensnare someone eventually in something, and we see it over and over again where people who are struggling or struggling with this sometimes oppressive economy that we have created are struggling, and police are right there to throw them right down the street and end it all. I can’t tell you how many stories we’ve had where people who were in precarious situations found not help from our government or help from society, but a cop sitting there at a stop sign ready to get them for rolling up too close or not putting their blinker on 150 feet before a turn. It is extraordinary. And I think it is exemplar of what’s wrong and why copwatchers exist at all. Because if government was doing their job and we lived in an equitable society, I don’t think they’d be necessary.

Taya Graham:

And I think copwatchers, and the good ones, because there are a few folks who let’s say don’t know the law.

Stephen Janis:

It’s not pretty.

Taya Graham:

Don’t know the law quite as well as they should. Of course, I won’t name any names. But in general, they’re really helping educate people. I mean, I learned from copwatchers that police officers in Baltimore actually don’t have the right to stop me and ask for my ID, and it was just de rigueur. That was just something I had to live with. And copwatchers really let me know. I could say, No, you don’t have the right to ask me for my papers.

Stephen Janis:

Well, and Abade Liberty Freak and Eric Brandt.

Taya Graham:

And I think Irizarry might be in the chat. So if you are Liberty Freak, great to see you.

Stephen Janis:

Well, Liberty Freak changed 10th circuit made it legal or made an established right, excuse me, and overcame qualified immunity to make an established right to film police, which is another… So we can’t even get into qualified immunity right now, but it was their work of filming police officer that made it possible for the 10th Circuit to say, yeah, that’s absurd. Of course, it’s an established right to be able to film police. So that’s copwatchers, that’s not us. Journalists, for example. This is the work of people who are just doing this completely on their own and with very little support.

Taya Graham:

It’s amazing. And the last thing I’ll say about it is copwatchers are learning something that I felt that we only knew as journalists, that the closer you get up to the system, the more you learn, the better you understand it, and the better you realize the power that people actually have to change it. A lot of times when you don’t see how governance works, when you don’t see how the criminal justice system works up close, it is completely mystified.

Stephen Janis:

That’s a good point.

Taya Graham:

It’s like you need a high priest to interpret what is happening in those courtrooms for you. So the further away you are from it, the further you feel like you can’t affect any change. That distance makes you feel disempowered.

Stephen Janis:

Or cynical.

Taya Graham:

Or cynical. But the closer you get, the more you understand that the levers of power are there for you to affect as well. So I think it speaks to political efficacy. It speaks to people getting their power back. And the closer we get to seeing how our government works, the more we can actually hold it accountable and have our government treat us and serve us the way it should. Okay. Last of our proselytizing on the benefits of copwatching, and before I beg you… Oh, by the way, Odin, who’s been talking about Norwegian police, how they’re educated, their lack of guns, I would want the next fundraiser for me to go and study the Norwegian police and do a comparison.

Stephen Janis:

Can we please do a fundraiser on that?

Taya Graham:

Between the Baltimore City police department and any Norwegian police department you choose. I would like to select that as my next report.

Stephen Janis:

We will do a full length documentary on Norwegian police if you send us there.

Taya Graham:

Oh my gosh, I can’t even imagine being given the opportunity to do something like that and to see a cop without a gun. My goodness. Okay, before we beg you for another match donation or Lacey shares my Patreon account again, I just want to share something with you heartfelt that I thought about, and hopefully in keeping with the season. It’s time for the final rant of the year, but it’s not really going to be a rant. Instead, I want to make a plea to all of us, for all of us. I want us to collectively decide that while law enforcement is flawed and sometimes destructive, our mutual work to fix it is a sign that there is still hope and many things to be thankful for.

I mean, if there is one lesson I could draw from this year of coverage is that despite all the injustice the people who appear on our show have suffered, they have one thing in common. They’re willing to step forward and fight back. And they do so even while having to face perhaps one of the worst moments of their lives. They stand up for themselves and their community at great risk. And what strikes me the most about this courage is how often I see it, even the midst of other problems in the lives of our guests. And what I mean is that mistreatment by law enforcement often comes at the most inopportune time. It seems that when a person is suffering through economic hard times and personal troubles, cops are always at the ready to make a bad problem even worse.

I cannot tell you how many stories I’ve recounted on this show of a person who is in a precarious financial situation or struggling with a family crisis and how this was made worse, much worse by the chaos of an ill-timed arrest or a problematic encounter with police. But what also astounds me again, is the people who I speak to, the people who take the time to tell me their stories despite suffering through this kind of stress, the regular citizens who in the face of police pushback and the general scorn of a society fixated on the elites, they fight to tell their stories.

And what I have learned from their words and their tales and their tears is a concept that I think we all forget, but is essential to the functioning of a healthy society that we all deserve redemption. A second chance. That a world without the possibility of redemption is inhumane. In other words, a world without the possibility of personal growth or evolution, without empathy, without room to acknowledge our common humanity and similarities is a world that can only be sustained by cruelty. So what I’m trying to say is that our guests who appear on our show, what they’re fighting for is more than just the hope that police will be transformed or changed.

What they’re fighting for is a better world for all of us. And what they’re struggling to build is a world where a person is not measured by charging documents or handcuffs or tinted windows or a false arrest, where law enforcement and the indiscriminate power of government does not define us, confine us, or proscribe how we live, where the people are empowered to shape our own lives and to build our communities as we see fit. And we are even free to make mistakes without continual and ongoing harassment. I know it’s a concept that is rarely raised in the context of law enforcement, but it’s a question we have to ask ourselves. And it’s also a debate that I think is at the heart of our show and speaks to the core beliefs of the people who appear on it. I know that there are people, no matter what you do and how to try to help, they will continue to wreak havoc on the lives of others.

And I understand that the world contains evil that must be subdued, and we must protect ourselves from this destructive force. But you can’t build a community based solely on cynicism. I mean, you can’t improve the lives of the people by just embracing the worst of us or expecting the worst of us, policing by the exception, not the rule. In other words, you can’t construct a society around managing the most destructive human impulses. And worse yet, you can institutionalize that type of mentality by creating a law enforcement industrial complex that monetizes the lack of faith that we have, meaning the lack of faith that we are all worthy.

So I think what I’m trying to say here is something that I have learned in my own life, and that is if cruelty is your currency, all you will purchase is sorrow. If you expect the worst, you imprison your own mind in a world of low expectations. And if you build a world replete with fines and fees and cages and cuffs, it’s going to be your own imagination that will be locked away in a cell, permanently inhibited by your obsession with retribution. And so that is why I’m so inspired week after week by the people who take the time to appear on our show. It’s why I post a comment of the week and try to answer all of your thoughts and perspectives. It’s why I look forward to each and every live chat to join in a discussion about what needs to be done, not just to improve policing and improve public safety but to improve our lives in general. And it’s why I have learned so much from all of you. Yes, all of you, the people who watch us.

And that is the amazing thing about constructing a community as you have with us, premised on the idea that we are worthy of better. It’s honestly kind of a miracle, and it’s a testament to what people from all over the country, from big cities to small towns, from east coast to west, from middle America to deep south can do when we organize ourselves around the simple premise that we can and should expect better. That idea motivates me every week, and it’s what keeps me going day in and day out when I watch sometimes very brutal videos of police malfeasance. And it keeps me responding to your emails and investigating your stories, and it motivates me to call police departments and records clerks and prosecutors and community liaisons and to demand answers. It is the reason I do what I do.

So today or tonight rather, I want to thank you. I want to thank all of you for making me believe that with enough fighting for positive change, we can make a difference. And I want to thank you for sustaining me and Stephen as we fight for the truth, for giving me hope and for encouraging me to continue to report and not give up. You all do that every day in the comments. You and your hope for a better and fairer world is what keeps us going. It’s your collective demand that police and our government be better, that helps make us better as well. So thank you from my heart. I want to thank you first and I want to let you know I appreciate and cherish your support. And I want you to understand that our audience is why we are here. And it is you, our audience that will keep us going.

So hopefully we can all fashion a world where the police accountability report is no longer needed. And believe it or not, we would be happy to never ever have to report on police brutality or corruption again. We would love to see the day when there simply isn’t any to report on. I would be the happiest unemployed person ever. This is the time of year for redemption and second chances and to remember we’re deserving of something better for our government, but we’re going to have to work for it. I want to thank my guests, Chris Ryder of For Public Safety and his wife Tiffany of Official Misconduct for letting us borrow him. And perhaps next time I will speak to her for the ladies’ nights. And of course, I have to thank Otto The Watchdog for his time, his incredible energy, and his ability to make even a depressing topic like police overreach somehow never lose its humor. Thank you Otto.

And I have to thank amazing mods of the show and my dear friend, Noli D. Hi, Noli D. And my mod and new friend, Lacey R. Thank you both for being here and for your help tonight. And now I’m going to wish you all good. Well to all and to all a good night, but especially my amazing Patreon who I promised earlier that I would personally thank. Patreons who sign up for accountability reports get some extra perks, and one of them is my personal and heartfelt thank you and being mentioned in the PR shows. So please indulge me as I do my best to thank each and every one of your beautiful Patreons. And I only say your first name and the last letter because I don’t want to accidentally release any private information.

Lucida G, my PR Associate Producer, John E.R., PR Associate Producer, Matter of Rights, my super friend, Kenneth Lawrence K, my super friend, my other super friend, Pineapple Girl. And my official Patreons, Michael W, Marvin G, Nope, Zira M, XXX, Dante K Small, Rod B, Celeste DS, P.T., Tamera A, Friends of Par Like Liz S, Gary T, Ronald H, Marcia E, Bill D, Nin Nin N, David W, Regina O, Hodes, Frank FK, Mary M, Dean C, Shannon P, Cameron J, Farmer Jane USA, Daniel W, Stephen B, Keith, Bernard M, Mark, William L, Guy B, Alan J, Trey P, John P, Ryan, Lacey R, Andrea J.O., RBMH, Stephen J, Artemis L.A., and David B. And since it’s the season, goodwill to all and to all a goodnight. And as always, please be safe out there. Thanks for joining us.

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