Rebecca O’Keeffe helped spark an international firestorm within the world of sports when she called on the Irish women’s basketball team to boycott its Feb. 8 match against Israel. While O’Keeffe’s calls for a boycott ultimately went unheeded, her actions have provoked serious debate within Ireland and internationally on the responsibility of athletes to stand up against genocide. O’Keeffe joins Edge of Sports host Dave Zirin for an exclusive interview on why she took a stand, how the sports world responded, and why she refuses to back down.
Studio Production: David Hebden
Post-Production: Taylor Hebden
Audio Post-Production: David Hebden
Opening Sequence: Cameron Granadino
Music by: Eze Jackson & Carlos Guillen
Transcript
Dave Zirin: Welcome to Edge of Sports, the TV show, brought to you by The Real News Network. I’m Dave Zirin.
This week we are speaking with someone at the heart of a massive international sports story. Her name is Rebecca O’Keeffe, and the world’s sporting powers lost it when she started the call for the Irish Basketball Women’s Team to boycott their Feb. 8th game against Israel in protest of the continued onslaught in Gaza.
Then the Israeli team called them antisemitic for even raising the boycott call, and the Irish players who did not boycott were so insulted they refused to shake hands with their Israeli opponents, which caused more outrage in Israel than the mass killings in Gaza themselves.
It’s a lot to unpack, but fortunately, she’s here to explain it. She’s a former international basketball player, currently with Irish Sport for Palestine. Let’s bring her on, Rebecca O’Keeffe.
Rebecca O’Keeffe, thank you so much for joining us here on Edge of Sports.
Rebecca O’Keeffe: Hi. Thanks for having me.
Dave Zirin: So let’s start with the narrative of what happened. How did the call for the Irish Women’s Basketball team to boycott Israel come about?
Rebecca O’Keeffe: So the Irish senior women’s team had a Basel match against Israel as part of the EuroBasket qualifiers, so that was set to take place last year. I called for that boycott back in October. So I called for FIBA, the governing body, to suspend Israel based on a precedent that they had done with Russia beforehand and Belarus. I’d also called on Basketball Ireland to withdraw participation.
So what turned out happening was the match was postponed. So that was postponed to February 2024. When that was said, that Basketball Ireland would intend to fulfill the fixture, I reissued those calls in January of 2024.
So I reissued the calls to FIBA, reissued the calls to Basketball Ireland, and then I also said, okay, in the event that no action is taken by those bodies, players [inaudible] boycott the game as well.
So I reissued those calls to no avail. There was talk of heavy sanctions such as a ban and a fine, but I reiterated again that for the first forfeit, which this match would’ve been, there was no ban. It was going to be a fine of up to €80,000 maximum, which a lot of people in civil society said they would crowdfund for.
So amongst all of that, I ended up getting a lot of support from civil society and a lot of organizations such as the Irish Palestinian Solidarity Campaign and the Irish Sport for Palestine, amongst others. So it really gained a lot of traction amongst the population here who supported the calls for boycott, but also mainly for these governing bodies to take action. Because I maintained through all this it should never have been on the players themselves. They were put in a terrible position.
So there was an email campaign, there were more calls, and then Basketball Ireland came out and said, no, we’re fulfilling the fixture. But amongst all of that, five, if not six players individually took a stand to boycott the game, so massive respect to them. They were so brave, and that courage taken, that moral stand, I can’t applaud that enough. So those five, six players took that moral stand, but the game was still due to go ahead.
There was still silence and inaction from these governing bodies despite precedent, because while FIBA removed Russia and Belarus, Basketball Ireland themselves also protested a game against Belarus and said they would not fulfill it. So amongst all of these double standards and inconsistencies, and the players themselves boycotting, the match was due to go ahead.
Now, it was going to be in a neutral venue in Latvia. So the week leading up to the game, we actually saw quite an escalation in all of this. Images emerged from Israeli training camp of machine guns on the court, very specific, definite political messaging being promoted, soldiers, army personnel who no doubt are part of this ongoing genocide. So when that was coming out in promotion of a game under FIBA, that flagrantly violates so many regulations as is, but then a player on the Israeli team called Ireland quite antisemitic, which is false.
So there were many instances in that week that the game could have or should have been boycotted on many grounds. But in response to falsely being called antisemitic, the Basketball Ireland players said, we will take a stand and not partake in pre-match arrangements such as shaking hands. So they were taking a stand. They did not shake hands, they did not partake. They stood on the side of the court. The match went ahead, and then it gained international attention.
So while the players made a stand, I still think they were in such a horrendous position. It should have been taken out of their hands by the governing bodies, by FIBA. However, it did take a stand, sent a message. It gained international attention, sparked conversation, and now FIBA has said that those events leading up are now under review. So will they be sanctioned? I don’t know.
Dave Zirin: How do you explain it to the players, the public, that FIBA would have this double standard where they would support the banning of Belarus and Russia, yet Israel at this moment is somehow untouchable. How is that explained? How is that discussed in Ireland?
Rebecca O’Keeffe: People understand the double standard and the inconsistencies, and it is a clear-cut case, in our opinion, that you did it before with Russia and Belarus, you should be doing it now to Israel. I don’t know why they’re not doing it. It’s mirrored on the political stage as well, that Israel acts with impunity and gets away with it and is above the law.
So we know that there’s a double standard here. We know there is an inconsistency. We know it should come from the governing body of FIBA, but failing that, it should also come from the national bodies.
Because I’m going to reference FIFA now, the Soccer Association, they also removed Russia, but it fell to national governing bodies to refuse to play. That mounting pressure did end up making FIBA suspend Russia. So there is clear precedent here, the inconsistency and the hypocrisies are rife, and it also feeds into this narrative of sports and politics shouldn’t mix, and I reject that statement.
Dave Zirin: Oh, we’re definitely going to talk about that, believe you me. I also want to underline a point you made earlier, that Israeli players posed with machine guns on the court?
Rebecca O’Keeffe: So the players –
Dave Zirin: Am I getting that right?
Rebecca O’Keeffe: So images emerged of soldiers in uniform with machine guns with players. They had banners, “We stand with Israel”, “Release the hostages”, all this political messaging. There was an image of a machine gun at the court, and then you could see the court in the background.
So these were incredibly alarming images. And for that rhetoric of sports and politics don’t mix, this was front and center. It was a very definite weaponization of Israeli propaganda to promote a basketball match.
Dave Zirin: Shocking that that’s a part of it, and shocking that that somehow doesn’t fall under the matrix of sports and politics according to the minders of FIBA.
You said something also that I think some of my listeners coming to this for the first time, some of the viewers might not understand. Israel, which is in the Middle East, plays in the European Qualifiers for basketball? What is that about? What comes to my mind is this idea of Israel as a European colonial state, of trying to mark that ground, that Israel is somehow a Western nation in the Middle East. Is that the way it’s understood in Ireland as well? Do people ever take a step back and say, wow, this is political in and of itself?
Rebecca O’Keeffe: I don’t think people make the connection that it’s political, but everyone definitely says, why is Israel competing in European competitions across the board, and even in cultural events like Eurovision and so forth? So people definitely understand that, but they don’t make the connection, I don’t think, between that strategic element of it. I also don’t know if people understand it’s probably because a lot of Asian and Asia Cup or Asian nations won’t actually play against Israel.
Dave Zirin: Why do you think the full Irish team didn’t heed the boycott? What do you think were the blocks for them to not get a total boycott among the team?
Rebecca O’Keeffe: Yeah, and I think it’s important to say, so I am actually a basketball player myself. I love basketball. I love my community as well. I support women in sport always. I don’t think players should have been in this position at all. I’m not casting judgment on players who did end up playing, because it should have been taken out of their hands.
However, some of them did play, and I think a lot of it had to do with, again, the sanctions that were mentioned. Some statements came out that, should they not play, it would harm the sport for a generation because of this ban and the fine.
So I think it’s worth explaining as well that basketball in Ireland, it’s quite under-resourced, and it’s not as well-funded as other major sports in the country, so that is definitely a factor. I think that the threat of this ban and fine may have made players think twice. But I do think it was overstated, and the ban wasn’t going to come in until a second forfeit if that was ever going to happen. Civil society, again, we did offer to help crowdfund this if the fine was imposed.
Dave Zirin: So the absence of a handshake after the game or before the game, can you speak about why the Irish players refused to shake hands? What were those discussions about and why the refusal took place? I know you mentioned it earlier, but perhaps you could fill that out a bit?
Rebecca O’Keeffe: Just to state, I am not on the team. I was not one of those players that boycotted. I am a former international player, and so I’m not privy to internal discussions or how the dynamics played out.
But the statement that was released said they are not partaking in those pre-match arrangements such as a handshake due to the allegations of an Israeli player called Ireland quite antisemitic. The no handshake was in response to that. So while we were calling for a boycott for solidarity of Palestinians and the ongoing genocide — And I don’t think the game should have gone ahead — However, a stand was made, and that stand did reach headlines around the world.
Dave Zirin: Yes, it did. Did it strike you that this rejection of the handshake received the most publicity? Not the call for a boycott, not the incredible civil society movement against the playing, not FIBAs awful reaction, not the posing with machine guns on the court, but the rejection of the handshake. Did that strike you, and what do you think that’s about?
Rebecca O’Keeffe: It did strike me, but it didn’t surprise me. I would’ve said, well, the five or six players who boycotted, that should have been headlines, really, because that was a huge stand to take. I think the players taking a stand, not handshaking, visually it was quite striking. If you’re just coming into this without the context of the lead up of all the mobilization, that is what you see, and it is a strong statement.
As well, the common retort from Israel from any criticism is to then lead with being called antisemitic. So I think that’s, again, feeding into that narrative of we have to push back on being called that too. We also have to call out the genocide they’re committing as well. But for the international headlines being called antisemitic and taking that stand, it definitely picked up traction. And I think it still sent a message.
Dave Zirin: A powerful one, for sure. I’m getting from this that the experience of being called antisemitic angered or even radicalized some of the players who were less politically inclined, like they were insulted by that and responded in kind. Is that a correct analysis?
Rebecca O’Keeffe: Probably. I also think it’s probably a lot to do with as well, it is a violation of the FIBA handbook as well, because you’re talking about unsportsmanlike behavior. You’re talking about possibly intimidation. So there were a number of incidents that go counter to the FIBA handbook that are grounds for sanctioning Israel on that, so that could be another thing. They might have a case there.
They might have a case for the weapons on court and the political messaging, because FIBA themselves say they oppose violence. They promote peace, they’re for human rights.
So within their own charters we have to hold them to account, and that’s the overarching thing here. We’re asking these governing international bodies, sporting bodies, to uphold their own charter, to follow their own rules, to promote the ethics and code of standards that they say they do.
Dave Zirin: I was in Belfast some years ago, and there was this amazing political art I saw everywhere that was about solidarity with the Palestinian people. Ireland has this long history of solidarity with Palestine, and I was hoping, perhaps, you could speak to the roots of that, what that’s about, that there’s this kinship between these people.
Rebecca O’Keeffe: Yeah, Ireland has long standing solidarity with Palestine, and it does go back to our own history. It does go back to our own context of occupation, colonialism, and oppression. It does mirror similarly the situation — Not on the same scale, but it does mirror, and those roots of solidarity are there.
The ones that you see, the murals everywhere. You see marching every week. People are on the streets supporting Palestine. It’s a solidarity that does go back.
And you have to call out colonialism, you have to call out occupation. You have to call out oppression, and you also have to fight for freedom, liberation, and justice.
I think Ireland, it’s an interesting one as well, because even though we’re a small country on an international stage on this issue, we have been historically strong, and we have been influential on it. We’re one of the few countries in Europe right now taking a strong stand. While maybe public opinion might’ve said it took a little while to get here in the face of this oppression and the face of these powers that be, Ireland is still being strong and showing that solidarity when it matters most. I think Israel also knows that, and that’s why they lean on making us a pariah in this whole landscape.
Dave Zirin: How did you come to this issue? ‘Cause you were a top flight athlete, and oftentimes, doing that means you’re wearing blinders ’cause you have to focus on your sport, and yet, you’re clearly a political person as well. I think it’s important for other athletes to hear your experience about how these politics were able to break through and you were able to meld them with your athletic life.
Rebecca O’Keeffe: Yeah, so my background as well is I’m a peace activist, author, and researcher, so it is no coincidence that I am politically engaged because of what I do for a living too.
But I think as well, being a woman in sport, you are automatically coming up against structures that are just not built for you or in your interest. Being an athlete — And you talk about this a lot, the athlete activists, it shouldn’t be on athletes to do this or to advocate or to lead these movements, but you certainly have a voice, and you certainly have a platform.
If you think about sports, you want a level playing field. You want all these ethics that go with sport, but if it’s not being reproduced in your sport, you’re going to have to advocate and do that, unfortunately.
I think as well, as I said, that being a woman in sport, there are so many different discriminations that you have to speak out against or else things won’t get better, because we can’t rely on these organizing bodies to do that, and we’re seeing that very blatantly now.
So I came to speak out about equality and better conditions and player welfare, even, at the heart of it. But with Palestine as well, I don’t think we can be silent. Especially what’s happening now. We cannot bury our heads in the sand. We can’t sit idly by, we have to speak up.
I think as well, people often say, well, I’m just one person. But no, yes, you’re one person, and look what you can do. You have to speak up. And it’s drop by drop, and every action will count. You might not see a boycott, you might not see it as being effective overall, but they very definitely add up, and there are strategic elements to all of these.
I don’t know if you want to talk about boycotts overall, but we can certainly —
Dave Zirin: Oh, yeah.
Rebecca O’Keeffe: Yeah?
Dave Zirin: It goes to the next question really ’cause —
Rebecca O’Keeffe: Okay.
Dave Zirin: … I’ve been dying to ask you because this is what I get in my world with other sports writers, when I speak in praise of the actions of the players in Ireland, for example, they say, you are punishing Israeli athletes for the crimes of their state. When I say they shouldn’t be in the Olympics, they say, you are punishing Israeli athletes for Benjamin Netanyahu. How do you respond to that?
Rebecca O’Keeffe: It’s a common refrain. But look, the point of boycotts is not to punish athletes, but if you’re putting on that international jersey for your country, you are representing them. We can’t deny that sports is also a channel for soft power. On the international stage it is hugely symbolic: flags, anthems, national pride, competition, and what we’ve seen by Israel is a weaponization of that for propaganda.
So when you say you’re penalizing Israeli athletes, you’re making a stand and a statement, and you’re saying there’s going to be isolation of Israel on all fronts, including cultural and sporting, because these aren’t just taken on their own. It’s part of collaborative efforts.
The BDS campaign has been around for, what, 25 years? This is a concerted effort, and this is just one stand you’re taking to say, the behavior of your state is egregious, and it has to be called out, and you have to be sanctioned for it.
The thing as well that gets me is there is precedent. It has happened before. So these organizations are just being selective in who they’re discriminating against and who they’re punishing, who they’re sanctioning, and who they’re letting get away with it. It’s never been about penalizing athletes or organizations.
Politics exists in sports whether we like it or not. The boycott movement, we have to talk about as well, what does success look like? If you’re going to say, well, boycotting that athlete or that sport or that competition is not going to end genocide, well, then I think you’ve missed a little bit of the point, that the point is to put pressure on these organizations, to put pressure on Israel, to make them the pariah state and to spark the conversation, to get the international mobilization.
What we’ve seen now is, due to the Irish players taking a stand, there is that international conversation. More and more people are now looking to form coalitions. There’s an international petition with over 70,000 signatures to remove Israel from sport, including the Olympics.
There’s PACBI, BDS, Red Card Israel, like so many organizations now coming together to apply this pressure. When you take a stand, you send a very clear message not only of solidarity to Palestinians, but to Israel to say, you cannot get away with this. At what point are we going to stand up and say no?
Dave Zirin: Just so I don’t leave my viewers behind, can you say what PACBI and Red Card Israel are?
Rebecca O’Keeffe: Sorry, yeah. So the Palestinian Academic and Cultural Boycott is PACBI, and Red Card Israel is an organization to remove Israel from international sports and say, you should be sanctioned while you’re on trial for genocide, essentially.
Dave Zirin: Is the historical example of South Africa and the way that they were international pariahs in sport for some many years before the fall of Apartheid, has that been an effective tool, that history, in terms of making this argument?
Rebecca O’Keeffe: Massively, because people always say boycotts don’t work. Well, sporting boycotts were instrumental and decisive in dismantling the Apartheid South Africa regime. We can’t deny that.
I suppose as well, we would have a lot of… in Ireland as well, ’cause rugby is huge ,and a lot of rugby players actually boycotted. Some of them traveled and played, and then some of them boycotted, and then eventually, there was an international boycott. So that is often referenced as a huge example of a success.
But also, just more recently, all these organizations banning Russia and Belarus, it exists. We cannot say sport and politics don’t mix because their use and their effectiveness refute that.
Dave Zirin: To wrap up — And thank you, you’ve been so generous with your time — Who are some of the athletes that you’ve drawn inspiration from, either in your life, or in books, or where does that platform for you come from? On what shoulders do you stand upon?
Rebecca O’Keeffe: That’s a great question. As a basketball player, the WNBA as a whole is so strong in political statements. I respect them hugely every time they come out and say something strong.
I suppose Colin Kaepernick with the taking the knee, LeBron James sometimes coming out, and “Shut up and dribble,” Lewis Hampton’s quite strong in political statements as well. We’ve seen, actually, a lot of tennis players now come out, especially Palestine. But yeah, I got to shout out Caitlin Clark now as well for basketball. She’s incredible in what she’s doing for the female game, but also the US Women’s Soccer team with the equal pay. What they’ve done there is amazing.
So yeah, I think finding creative ways as athletes to make a stand always gets my vote.
Dave Zirin: So what’s next for the team, and what’s next for Irish Sport for Palestine?
Rebecca O’Keeffe: So for the team, there’s a return fixture in November. If nothing changes between now and then, I’m going to reiterate my calls for boycott because that will still count as the first forfeit, in which case there will still be a fine and not a ban.
However, I’m hoping the landscape changes. I’m hoping we’re going to apply, Irish Sport for Palestine, apply international pressure on these organizations to remove Israel.
We have an open letter that many high-profile athletes have signed already, and that’s to sanction Israel, remove them from the Olympics, that kind of thing. We’re also forming coalitions, as I said, looking for different entry points with various matches, fixtures, sports as well, not just basketball. So yeah, we’re ongoing. It’s given us more fuel that there is more international momentum now happening.
Dave Zirin: We just interviewed someone with a new formation in the US called Athletes for a Ceasefire. Perhaps I could make a connection there —
Rebecca O’Keeffe: Please do.
Dave Zirin: …And see if we could do some transatlantic organizing.
Rebecca O’Keeffe: Amazing, would love that.
Dave Zirin: Yeah, that would be amazing. Is there anything else you’d like to add to this story, to this narrative, what you’d like to see going forward before we tie a ribbon on this?
Rebecca O’Keeffe: Any action will make a difference, whether you think it or not. It’s not too late to act, it’s not too late to speak up. Your words matter, your actions matter. As I said, drop by drop, it all adds up, and it all matters. I just don’t think this is one of those things that is bigger than sport. We can’t be silent here. My solidarity goes to Palestine.
Dave Zirin: Rebecca O’Keeffe, thank you so much for joining us here on Edge of Sports.
Rebecca O’Keeffe: Thanks, Dave.
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